RE: The Theist's Guide to Converting Atheists

I found 'The Theist's Guide to Converting Atheists' to be an interesting article and while it did have some typical Atheist thinking it did touch on subjects that I would like to respond to.

Bare in mind this is just an intellectual exercise, I am not trying to convert anyone to any religion of any sorts, just going through the point by point article.

As a Muslim I'm often frustrated by Atheists blanket labeling religious people, actually, as a Muslim I'm tired of people blanket labeling people period. I would just like to say I am not prepared to lie or make up half-truths, I'll endeavor to write what I know to be fact from my knowledge, if I'm not sure I'll simply say so, I do not want to think of myself as 'ignorant' but rather cautious, unlike an Atheist I believe I have to answer for what I do in this life to a higher power and am not prepared to make stuff up out of conveniences sake at the same time I am willing to 'concede to parts I don't know a correct response to however I won't be conceding in the sense that I'm simply 'giving up'. I only know so much of my religion and it certainly doesn't make me a failure if I'm unsure about any one aspect of it.

The article goes point by point so I'll attempt to reply to it as such,
The article asks for 'Verified, specific prophecies that couldn't have been contrived' to this I have the following verse from the Quran,

The Romans have been defeated in the nearest land (to the Arabian Peninsula), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious within bedd’ (three to nine) years....

Quran, 30:2-4

Detailed Explanation

There are many more such examples, and Hadeeth of prophecies that came to pass, I don't have the sources with me hence I won't go into them.


Next point the article asks for 'Scientific knowledge in holy books that wasn't available at the time'. Islam is built on faith and on fact, on miracles and on science, my faith is equal parts just sheer (blind if you will) belief and scientific fact.

There are several verses referring to science which I believe to be very strong and not vague, however if you are to see these verses as vague it is purely your choice.

I'll take verses from the Quran which anyone can verify for themselves, the interpretation is from my version, it is more detailed than other condensed versions.

On the Human Embryo,

We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)...

(Quran, 23:12-14)

(alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot)

Detailed Explanation


On Mountains,

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?

(Quran, 78:6-7)


And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...

(Quran, 16:15)

Detailed Explanation


On The Origins of the Universe (No, I don't believe the Galaxy is 6000 years old, if I did I wouldn't be much of a Muslim)

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...

Quran, 41:11


Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...

Quran, 21:30

Both the above verses are alluding to hydrogen ('smoke') and how everything came from this smoke, the earth and the heavens (i.e. planet Earth, the stars).

Detailed Explanation


Other scientific revelations in the Quran, Cerebrum, Deep Seas and Internal waves and Clouds.

Furthermore Islam is hardly a religion at war with science, as scientists have commented favorably on the Quran. Historically Islam is full of scientific discoveries and even god asks Muslims to learn about the world around them to better understand how he created everything.


The next point the article asks for is 'Miraculous occurrences, especially if brought about through prayer', for our time the only Miracle that Muslims have that they can and should rely on above all else, (including trees that bend down as if in prayer) is the Quran. Muslims are not magicians, were as human as every other human on earth, we don't believe in psychic powers or telling of the future through star signs (it is actually a grave sin to do that), we believe in God because of the Quran and its Miracles, not because of so-called 'miracles' that could be attributed to any number of natural phenomena or just plain coincidence. This is null and void when applied to Islam, perhaps it looks like a conveniant escape, and it probably is, but as Muslims we are not to look for 'miracles' besides the Quran simply to strengthen our faith as this is not the way to do so and would lead us down the wrong path. As such the only Miracle I have is the Quran. Believe what you want from this and take what you want from it.


The next thing the article asks is for 'Any direct manifestation of the divine' and refers to old times, such as Moses who 'knew him (God) on a first-name basis'. This goes back to the above, it is essentailly asking for a Miracle, I cannot provide that and the only communication God gives us is the Quran which is the word of God (word for word), it's as close to hearing the words of God as you'll get, as before, believe what you want of it.


'Aliens who believed in the exact same religion' is a rather interesting proposal, God says that Islam is the final and complete religion for all mankind but does not refer to Aliens. Theoretically speaking if we ever meet with Aliens that are human (i.e. 'man') then if they aren't Muslim I think their history will indicate traces of Islam, and as crazy as it sounds they will have an exact replica copy of the Quran. Of course this is sci-fi, pending we find aliens we'll see how it goes, I'm just guessing here for my own amusement.

The only interesting point I can make here is that Muslims believe in 'Jins' which are invisible beings that share the same religion of Islam and follow the same messengers (including Muhammed). Before anyone jumps on the 'supernatural' bandwagon we as Muslims should not go about looking for them, their world is seperate from ours and they can have as much physical interaction with our world as we can of theres, virtually nill. The only advantage they have over us is that they can see us and we can't see them, but that is basically all there is to it, given they share the same messenger as we do (the exact same one) we have to leave them be. No, they won't be peeking at you while you're in the shower or anything like that :-)

The Jin aren't our concern nor are we theirs, this is just an interesting fact I am bringing up to illustrate the point I'm trying to make, that if we do come into contact with an extra-terrestrial civilization I will be somewhat disappointed but not fully shaken in my faith.


Now the article moves on to the 'circumstantial', not required but would be strong evidence to support a faith.

'A genuinely flawless and consistent holy book' I'd say the Quran is genuinely flawless and consistent however this is up to the minds of people and the way they wish to interpret the verses. This is another case of 'to each his own' as is pretty much all of religion in their own relative ways, in the end the question is if you can find the one that makes most sense to oneself. Personally I think anyone who doesn't accept Islam is mistaken however I as a Muslim am obliged to respect peoples decisions.

'A religion without internal disputes or factions.' Muhammed said that near the end of time there would be many different sects of Islam and only one sect would still be on the correct path, and that is the path of those who follow Muhammeds teachings and hadeeths (i.e. Sunni's). Politics has found its way into Islam and now we can't simply say 'Muslim, non-Muslim', the only way you can be sure that you are a Muslim is if you still follow the Sunnah. It is difficult for me to explain this in a short amount of space so I will leave it as it is.

The articles writer reasons that if God is perfect hence has created the perfect religion that no one would argue over aspects of and everyone would agree on the same points, however the writer failed to take into account peoples imperfections. Greed, envy, pride and arrogance are the bigger problems in Islam that has led to the massive divides between Muslims and the so-called 'internal' conflicts.


'A religion whose followers have never committed or taken part in atrocities' I can tell you for sure that according to Islam any and all forms of deliberate or careless actions that lead to 'collateral damage' of a civilian population be it Muslim or non-Muslim is punishable by death. Simple as that. So while Muslims may misguidedly partake in such actions they will be held accountable for their deeds on judgment day. Like I already mentioned it is the failings of people who follow the religion, not the religion itself, that is the problem. Don't judge a people by the actions of the very few, thats what being a Muslim in the current political climate has taught me really well.


'A religion that had a consistent record of winning its jihads and holy wars.' Without boring with too much details the first war that was fought under Islam was won, the second was lost. God wanted to teach the Muslims a lesson, that victory is never guaranteed. However on the whole during the early days of Islam there were many great victories, but looking at it as a Muslim a victory on the battlefield is either winning the war or dying for your country and religion. So it is a great honor to die for your faith and that is seen as a victory in itself. However, like all things, God doesn't guarantee Muslims anything without the trials of failure. If every war Muslims went into back so many years ago was won what point would it serve? It would weaken them in both their strengths and faiths. God asks us as Muslims to earn our dues, nothing is free in Islam.


The article goes on to speak of things that won't work in convincing anyone, I agree with it, I don't base my faith on blindness or other peoples stories and I really don't expect anyone to do so.

So this is the end of my response. When I started writing it I was not under the illusion I would convince anyone to convert to Islam, I was simply doing this as a bit of an intellectual exercise and I stand by it. If anyone has any questions they can ask (email or comments here). If you believe the scientific facts are too vague to call on and are literally expecting as the original article suggests "Verily, verily, I say unto thee that thine energy is as thine mass times the speed of light multiplied unto itself" then I can't help you here, call me an ignorant religious fundamentalist but I wouldn't feel too comfortable with such a thing.

Quran, Verse 9:5 - Allah Calling for Genocide Against non-Muslims?

Continuing from my previous post an anonymous comment requested (lets just say requested) I explain verse 9:5.

From the video it reads:

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them"

Once again this has been paraphrased the full translation:

"Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed then kill the Mushrikin wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (prayer) and give Zakat (charity) then leave them their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful"

Mushrikin are idolaters (pagans, Athiests, etc).
Ouch eh? However this is taken way out of context, verse 9:4:

"Except those of the Mushrikin with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfil their treaty to them for the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al-Mattaqûn (the pious)"

Basically if there is no treaty between Muslims and non-Muslims then Muslims are allowed to go to war with them. Before you jump your horses, there is a treaty between Muslims and non-Muslims, I'm not sure about the US but here in Australia the treaty goes something like this:

From this time forward, under God,

I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,

whose democratic beliefs I share,

whose rights and liberties I respect, and

whose laws I will uphold and obey.

(All new citizens have the choice of making the pledge with or without the words 'under God')

Thats a treaty, I have pledged my loyalty to Australia and its people, who's democratic beliefs I share, who's rights and liberties I respect and who's laws I'll uphold and obey.

If a Muslim breaks with that pledge then they are committing a sin, yes that includes everything from starting a war with non-Muslims to bloody well driving without a license, they are not upholding the laws hence are breaking a treaty they have made with the non-Muslims.

So put simply verse 9:4 isn't god blatantly asking Muslims to kill non-believers every chance possible, it's god giving the go ahead that if there is no treaty between Muslims and non-Muslims then war is an accepted possibility. However even then without a treaty it doesn't make war necessary, like I said, all things in Islam fall under the basic principle that if there is peace then it must not be broken. Hence there is always a treaty between Muslims and non-Muslims (i.e. peace), even if the pledge of allegiance in Australia was taken down Muslims wouldn't have a right to attack non-Muslims lest they want to face Gods punishment.

Of course there are those who support the enemy (i.e. support conservative governments to go to war in Iraq for instance) but that doesn't justify war with non-Muslims. They are not specifically targeting Muslims, they say themselves they are going after terrorists who are a threat to world peace. In large part I support their intent, yes, go for it, make the world peaceful, however I disagree with them on principle that they aren't going about it the right way. So what do I do? I uphold the laws of this country and vote in the elections :-P

My Interpretations of the Quran #1

Just a note: I intend on making more parts for this pending comments from people and my own free time I'll have, remember I'm still a uni student who dreams of learning Japanese and working at Nintendo :-P so yeah, I do have dreams I'd like to fulfill someday and I can't do that by blogging all day long :-)

Islam is a tough religion, it gives harsh penalties but promises great rewards. To that end verses in the Quran might sound harsh, and often times they are harsh especially when looking at them with a pre-emptive bias against it from all the bad a person may have heard about it.



Afraid?

I’ll be taking verses from the video and showing how they are misleading, at the very least I’ll show you how they should be interpreted versus how most people think they are interpreted. In Islam peace is the only way up until the point others start trying to take away your religion from you, then its war. This is the pre-cursor to all violence in Islam, one cannot start an act of violence against non-Muslims unless there is a clear and present danger towards Muslims. Even then the enemy has to be clear and defined because Allah warns Muslims will be held accountable should they attack non-Believers who are not a part of a war against Muslims.

Whatever is written in the Quran does not supersede this fundamental, where there is peace between believers and non-Believers it is a sin for a Muslim to attempt to break that peace. This has been demonstrated countless times in history, however a lot of people purposely skew facts to meet their own ends as such this post is not about the history of Islam. It is about showing people how verses from the Quran can be deliberately misinterpreted.

There aren’t many such resources online and I feel somewhat pressured to create this post, as such I don’t claim this to be the 100% true interpretations of the Quran but the inaccuracies are not deliberate nor would fixing any minor mistake drastically change the general meaning of the interpretation. I am not a scholar in anyway for my religion, I can't even speak Arabic, however I am a Muslim and I follow Islam while believing 100% in my heart that it is the truth. To that end I do not compromise on my religion and am very well prepared to leave my country (Australia) if I am restricted from practicing my religion in any significant way.

One last thing before I start, many of the verses on the video seem to be giving the bare minimum English translation of the Arabic verses. Arabic is more complex than English so it is actually impossible to have a straight English translation, however the video above has taken out bracketed parts that attempt to explain in English what certain words mean or are meant to imply. Given Arabic grammar and words often lack their English counterparts from a grammatical perspective or simply the word doesn’t exist in English.

To begin

Verse 2:6 From Video:

“Don’t Bother to Warn the Disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom.”

More Accurate English Interpretation:

“Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe”

I don’t see how this is implying anything bad upon non-Believers besides their inherent ignorance, there are those who disbelieve who will never believe in Islam. I know there are many such people out there who will never want to believe in Islam, what Allah is asking of believers is to simply not pressure them to change beliefs, even Muhammad cannot change their beliefs.

So basically in Islam it is not acceptable to go door to door knocking trying to convince people to convert to Islam. Allah says no matter how hard you press non-believers will never convert to Islam, it is their choice, if they come and ask a Muslim explains about Islam then you can explain to them all about it otherwise it is not a Muslims business trying to force Islam onto others.

Verse 2:10 From Video:

"Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie."

More Accurate English Interpretation:

"In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies"

Lies? Well this verse is not refering to all disblievers, it is referring to those who believe in a heaven and hell but who have lied to themselves, from verse 6:8:

"And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We beieve in Allah and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not""

Muhammad Has said that those who are the greatest threat to Islam are those who claim to believe but who disbelieve (i.e. hypocrites). They are liars and Allah has sealed their fate. So verse 2:10 is referring to those who claim to be Muslim but are not.

If there is anything here that is advocating war against these hypocrites I clearly can't see it, Allah only says that he has sealed the hearts and prepared a punishment for hypocrites. This is the passing of justice of Allah upon these people, if Allah seems to punish hypocrites hard then I totally agree with you, if you think Allah is asking Muslims to kill hypocrites or any such thing I ask you to re-read the verses and point out where exactly.

Verse 2:24 From the Video:

"A fire has been prepared for the disbielvers, whose fuel is men and stones."

More Accurate English Interpretation:

"But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers"

By 'you do it not' it is referring to verse 2:23:

"And if you (Arab pagans, Jews and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which we have sent down (i.e. the Quran) to Our slave (Muhammad) then produce a Surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful."

This is essentially saying that if you do not believe in the Quran then you should produce a single chapter to compete with the Quran and call your people (witnesses etc) to debate with Allah on it, if you are truthful.

Back to the first, it is saying but if you do not do such a thing and you cannot infact replicate the Quran then you should fear hell whose fuel is men and stone. This is essentially a call for those who disbelieve to convert to Islam, since they cannot create a text equivalent of the Quran (more on that later) they should not try to do as such and simply fear the hell fire and convert to Islam to avoid it.

By a text equivalent we are referring to an extremely complex piece of literature that bares no inconsistencies. This point is somewhat moot in terms of disproving Islam, since you will need a person who is completely unbiased in everyway possible to judge this piece of literature non-believers may create it would be impossible to verify unless god himself looked upon this literature, being almighty and perfect he will make that decision. He invites people to attempt it and says they cannot, so simply he's saying don't try to replicate Islam or create a religion, because you cannot, fear hell fire and convert to Islam.

Once again I cannot see anywhere in this verse the advocacy of violence against non-believers. Yes, again the verses are strong but there is nothing in them that asks Muslims on planet earth to attack non-believers.



In my next post on this matter I will be explaining verses 2:190, 2:244 and 2:178.

Remember once again I'm not a scholar on this subject matter but I am a Muslim and I can read. What I write here are my opinions however I'm sure they reflect off on the majority 1.2 billion other Muslims in existence.